This has been taken from their home page…
groups.yahoo.com/group/CELEB_UPSKIRT_T1TS_OUT/
(please enter beginning of address)
“WE GOT DA BITCHES!!!!”
“We are totally in support of girls getting their T1TS OUT in the Daily Sport newspaper. Go for it – get those T1TS OUT!We totally appreciate the UPSKIRT shots of celebrities in the Daily Sport!
Thanks to the Daily Sport we’re as familiar with celebrities PANTIES as the celebrities who wear ‘em!In this group we got the SEXIEST film clips, the best celebrity UPSKIRT shots and T1TS-OUT shots you’ll ever see!
We got the right attitude: we aggressively oppose feminism!
SUPPORT OUR CAMPAIGNS:
1. Get tough with women who make false accusations of r@pe!
2. Every girl in Britain between the ages of 18 and 25 to go T1TS-OUT in the Daily Sport!
3. Government subsidised breast enhancement for women with less than a B cup!”
Entitled “WE GOT DA BITCHES” this recurrent little charmer of the daily Squirt continues. To use his capital preference for emphasis it reads.
TITS OUT TITS OUT UPSKIRT PANTIES SEXIEST UPSKIRT TITS OUT…
I think he has made his point.
His “SUPPORT OUR CAMPAIGNS” manifesto reflects I feel the mental age of the Daily Squirt’s readership. Please remember the publication is classed as a “newspaper” and this home page is contributed to by the readers of the “newspaper”
Squirt, lurk etc idea courtesy of AoM
Capital M Misogyny.
I clicked on a few of the links to investigate, most of the young women come off looking ’stupid’ – it is obvious that the purpose is for ridicule rather than arousal. And the usual terms to describe them are sl-ts (so the yw are ridiculed for giving men what they ‘want’).
Nurses opinion req’d: in the link “How’s this for a s—”, isn’t that medically dangerous for the young woman?
videos.humpingfrog.com/13740/2006/02/celebrating-good-times.html
Extremely dangerous. The high pressure could jettison straight through the cervix causing severe reproductive organ damage and infection, and that is without local damage to soft tissues of the vagina.
Misogyny at its finest, and remember folks this is a video advertised in a “Newspaper‘s” forum, there is no sense of responsibility shown towards women, in having allowed that video to be put on site as some sort of prank?
Thanks Stormy, I hadn’t seen that one. To be honest I’m pleased to be going away this weekend away from all of this shit.
Yup women been ridiculed and then called s**ts. And they wonder why some of us have had enough? BTW I think many men get ‘turned on’ by ridicule of the female, but that is to shore up their own inadequate little personalities… Whatever man
Fucking hell – I have been saying for ages that one day, if we don’t stop them, they will have their way and young women will be walking around topless, they are halfway there already, and many young women see being fuckbots as liberation – as for the govt subsidised breast ops – wtf is happening to men’s minds? This is truly awsomely sick – men really do hate women don’t they? WTF can be done? No one is listening – this crap should not only NOT be published in a newspaper, it should not be published at ALL! What planet are they on? But you know what? They don’t care what we say, they are so full of male supremist bullshit, they know they are getting away with it – something has to be done soon.
Nope, women are not human – we’re either fuckbots or we’re not – such simple criteria for the neanderthals to judge us – they define, they judge — this is outta control now.
Once people are dehumanized then I feel it takes quite some undoing. Respect for the female has gone and therefore anything is possible. It does not matter any more for she is not human. The same thing happens within war, and publications like this say exactly that to me.
Sparkle, the humping frog vid did not work for me – I did a link-following thing and came across some very very scary stuff – shall I post it here or not? Don’t want the pervs finding stuff from this blog or give free advertising to the webrapists (and that’s what I found- cartoon version of course, and some virtual) – I can understand why women now want to opt out of any relationship with men at all now – even if they say they don’t like porn, you cannot trust them.
There is one where a girl is tied up and gagged in a toilet, and you get to choose which tools to rape her with – a syringe, a dick and some other stuff – it’s horrendous and the fact that this is so easily accessible – the world is doomed – or should I say women are doomed if this is not addressed – men where are you? Hiding behind your porn no doubt.
Proff I will email you the link. Put the other links in (broken of course)with a warning. At the moment I want non rapists to see what is in the UK’s ‘newspapers’ forums.
*not accepting any pro-pornography comments*
sparkle I tried accessing the link directly but I think the prob is my version of win media – will take an hour to download the latest so will leave it for now.
I will post the links I found to you and you can check them – but I would be wary of playing into the hands of the webrapists and also be aware that by showing these, potential webrapists could be created.
I think it is a disgrace to journalism that The Daily Sport even exists! What must tourists think when they come here and see that an institution is actually dubbing ‘up-knicker-shots’ of women as being front-page-scoop-worthy material? It connotes a smutty, seedy side to what the mass media claim to be conjugal characteristics in British identity, which I, like I guess many others, wish to detach themselves from.
Good god. That’s a ‘newspaper’?
Ugh, when reading that I had a flash to Marge Piercy’s A Woman on the Edge of Time and the cities with women of the imposibly large clevage and the incredibly small feet who were kept by men. That’s where society’s heading, though I must say I will be on the other side fighting the crazies.
(If you haven’t read this book it describes my perfect society, e.g. the one fighting the scary one with the engineered women.)
Excuse me while I go throw up my lunch. Call me a mean humorless man-hating rad fem, but I’m becoming more and more of a seperatist by the day.
Burrow and Lya Kahlo the book that envisions the world of “engineered” women living in a separate environment with the men – its looks like that is already happening now. I predict PornSucksVille will be a reality (see post on Pornsucksville). A separatist society is looking more and more of an option as this sorry state unfolds. Then we are called ‘man haters’ sheesh challenge men on their raping and misogyny and absence of respect for another human who has an xx in stead of a xy chromosome set up. If we really want that safe feminist world, women are going to have to give up male approval and male love and start to build something with other women – because men like raping women and they like getting off to abusive images of women and they like controlling women and they are not going to stop until they have to.
sparklematrix – hey if it worked for Lysistrata, it can work for us too. However, I feel there are far too many “fun feminists” and other patriarchy-compliant barbies to make it effective.
I will read the pornsucksville post – thanks for suggesting it.
Yes Lysistrata, and that was from around 400BC.
I cannot see much ‘fun’ just a fight for survival, but I guess that is why separatism is kind of looking appealing. I do not need any strokes from men to gather a sense of self, that stopped quite a while back. What you are looking for – you all ready are, and the sooner we realise we do not ‘need’ mens approval or love the sooner we can start having a safer world. Now that does not make me a ‘man-hater’ that makes me face reality.
BTW Pornsucksville is in a jokey concept, but it is no joke
Just a reminder to ya’ll – I believe the PornSucksVille concept was started on the Tumbleweed thread.
Sparkle you have summed everything up very well here: (shucks – so good it deserves to be posted twice
) – ” Burrow and Lya Kahlo the book that envisions the world of “engineered” women living in a separate environment with the men – its looks like that is already happening now. I predict PornSucksVille will be a reality (see post on Pornsucksville). A separatist society is looking more and more of an option as this sorry state unfolds. Then we are called ‘man haters’ sheesh challenge men on their raping and misogyny and absence of respect for another human who has an xx in stead of a xy chromosome set up. If we really want that safe feminist world, women are going to have to give up male approval and male love and start to build something with other women – because men like raping women and they like getting off to abusive images of women and they like controlling women and they are not going to stop until they have to. )
As for the “fun” feminists, they are just lazy and scared of the reality – they are not feminists at all.
I forsee the world as: one group consisting of the engineered women, the women waiting to be engineered, the pro-”freespeech” wankettes, and oh yeah, the men. The other group will be women (and maybe some enlightened men) like us who just want to live our lives nontoxically. But you know what? Men won’t be happy with that – I have said before, they will be so bugged at knowing there are women who are not haveing porn shoved down their throats either literally or metaphorically, women who have taken control of their lives and said “stay out” to porn, that men will attack or try to infiltrate and destroy – you only have to look at groups on the internet to see how this works on the cyber level – it would happen in real life if women separated from the pornusers – and here’s another fact – they would get much more enjoyment out of raping women like us, knowing that we have gone out of our way to live away from their fucked up shit – how they would revel in making us partake in every sick way they could think of- look at the situation of nuns in war – the soldiers get an extra thrill as the nuns supposed to be untouchable, have separated from men and are “holy” and untainted by the world, and don’t pornmen just love destroying anything pure and good. That’s how dangerous and sick it has become.
I am waiting to win the triple rollover euromillions – gonna buy an island somewhere for the group we have so far – I bet if a world-wide survey was done, the group would be as big as most of the female population (except for the Denial “feminists” and avedon carol. Hisssss.
Yours in amazing female separist energy
Prof Fifi TrixiBell
Professor Fifi, I will focus my thoughts and energy on you winning the triple rollover – I want to live on this island – NOW!
I agree with everything else you’ve said, I just have to throw my $0.02 in about this:
“As for the “fun” feminists, they are just lazy and scared of the reality – they are not feminists at all. ”
I am on the fence about this. I think they believe they are feminists, but act in ways that directly contradict that. Of course, when you mention this to them, they claim (esp on femlisting) that you’re trying to make feminism a religion. They seem to believe that outlining the (obvious) points and goals of Feminism is a bad thing. They blow the boundaries of what constitutes a feminist so wide that the word ceases to mean anything.
Anyone can call themselves anything but when they behave in directly contradictory ways, it’s impossible to take them seriously. For example – if someone called themselves an environmentalist, but drove a full sized Hummer- would you believe they supported anything about Environmentalism?
Same goes here. If a woman calls herself a feminist and then behaves in ways that directly contradict what the word implies, I have a hard time taking them seriously.
That said, does mascara, shaving or wearing a skirt constitute acting against Feminism? Is working in porn, being a model, or dressing in a “sexy” halloween costume?
I sort of see their point. Do any of these things really imply that they are not supporters of feminist goals, or does it mean they simply haven’t been able to divorce themselves from patriarchy compliance (something that they would deny vehemently, of course, but is still very obvious)? Are they mutually exclusive? Perhaps “fun” feminists should be relabeled “Proto-Feminists” – to imply that they simply haven’t evolved completely yet.
Ultimately, “fun” feminists come off to me as girlies who like their patriarchy aproved girlie toys and enjoy the approval of the pro-chick dudes (that pretend to be pro-feminist). They simply haven’t realized that playing with their girlie toys is part of the problem even when they pretend to “chose” them. They seem to believe that choices can be made in a vacuum – that because they call themselves “feminists” that it gives them license to “chose” anything and also be immune to criticism (criticism which I’ve noted they can’t handle at all). This is obviously false.
~~
However, I remain the fence despite my ever increasing seperatist leanings. I am in a relationship with a man – we share an apartment. He’s a pacifist, he’s learning the dangers and dispicability of porn (which, imo is very different from erotica), and owing to having been raised by a beloved grandmother has a respect for women that I have not encountered before. This is not to suggest he’s perfect, of course. It is merely my noting that I am not yet ready to completely give up on men. I also have an excellent father, excellent brothers, excellent male friends. This is not to suggest that no one else here doesn’t – I am simply trying to explain why I remain on the fence.
Is seperatism seen as just a euphemism for “giving up”?
“Proto-Feminists”
I think I’ll have to add this one to my dictionary. I agree in part, but fear many will never evolve! (Certainly not by continuing to totter around in heels and generally behaving in ALL of the patriarchy-approved ways.)
And yes, I would definitely agree with:
“They seem to believe that choices can be made in a vacuum – that because they call themselves “feminists” that it gives them license to “chose” anything and also be immune to criticism (criticism which I’ve noted they can’t handle at all).”
Good analogy on the Hummer-driving ‘environmentalist’. Kind of how I see self-proclaimed feminists shimmying up and down on poles. I don’t take them too seriously either, nor would I really even consider them proto-feminists.
“I agree in part, but fear many will never evolve! (Certainly not by continuing to totter around in heels and generally behaving in ALL of the patriarchy-approved ways.)”
I definitely agree. Many most likely will not – especially since they receive approval and support from pseudo-feminist boys. The boys pat them on the head and say “you’re prettier than those butchy radfems” and the proto-fems eat it up. They may never grow up. But we can hope.
While I don’t think they’re feminists either, I do think there’s potential and that may be reason enough to not slam the door in their faces.
As an atheist, I’ve had all manners of debates about religion/god/theology with theists of all stripes. Some have gone well, most have not. I have also see plenty of once-theists deconvert and become atheists. And this happened when they were not attacked, and were given the chance to understand that there isn’t punishment for giving up the ghost (as it were).
I think the same is applicable here. They do need to understand that giving up their stilettos and corsets isn’t going to mean a lonely, celibate life. And that these pseudo-feminist boys are simply a different face of patriarchy – though no less effective. But will they? Who knows.
How’s that saying go? You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make her drink?
Hmmmm…maybe this is just my perception, but I get the idea that those guys really like to look at tits.
What I want to know is how many sets of tits can a man look at until they all begin to look the same?
“… I have been saying for ages that one day, if we don’t stop them, they will have their way and young women will be walking around topless, they are halfway there already…”
Except for whipping a boob out to breast feed a child. That’s obscene, ya’ know. Like ewwww gross.
Re separtism – we are all on the same journey, more or less, and some are further down the line than others. Some are still at the stage where there is a bit of “let’s just give one man one more chance” – that’s fine, we’ve all been there. Personally, I have had a lifetime of “giving chances” and have had enough – as Sparkle said if you have the “eyes that can see”, the problem is also getting far worse rather than better, it’s far far harder to trust a man now than even 5 years ago – you can SEE the deterioration in their attitude and you can SEE what they put into their heads – it’s all around.
I TRIED saying, boys will be boys, hell, I even tried to be a lapdancer and private porn star for a man (men), but you know what? It’s never enough for them – you would think that being the ultimate whore for them would stop them straying – but you see, as the raunch culture grows more ingrained every day, all this does is give them more and more opportunities to take advantage of all the free sex on offer and believe me, they do, and they lie like pinocchio (sp?) about it – all this “choice” (a forced choice is not really a choice) for women to be like pornstars only encourages MORE distrust, not less, focusing on sexually defining yourself on men’s terms, and staying on that “upping the ante” treadmill of trying to “keep your man”. It all is so fucking pointless now and so shallow.
I will not see a man who has any kind of porn habit whatsoever, and that sort of man is very hard to find these days, and also, in my experience, you think you’ve found one, and all he’s done is lie about not being into it. (This is a new “gone full-circle” phenomena, the women who are actually coming out now and declaring their dislike of porn, after perhaps for years living in denial and trying to be ok with it, are now being lied to – in other words, a long time ago before the mainstreaming of porn, women were not exposed to porn, but were still upset if they found a porn mag hidden and found out they’d been lied to about it- nowadays, many women know pretty much what’s out there, (although I have to say, what’s tame now was extreme 10 years ago), have been thru the stage where they have tried to be “cool” about it, and have now decided that actually, it’s not cool at all- we can see what’s actually going on, and can see what is going to happen if this pornification carries on – see “daily squirt” thread if in any doubt.)
What I’m saying is, separatism is not giving up – it means we’ve tried and tried and at some point, men have to meet us halfway and do some of the running, and that just ISN’T happening cuz you know what? They don’t really have to – that’s the sad fact about it – so until that happens, I (we) are outta here. It’s not as if we haven’t tried – we’re just tired of it and our energy can be put to better use moving onwards and upwards, rather than just treading water which is getting more and more turbulent by the day, getting nowhere, and only wearing ourselves out in the process.
But Prof Fifi is not a man-hater – oh no – god forbid that someone says she hates a man – she’s just sick of their lies and deceit, and their arrogant expectation that she will automatically be addicted to shopping at ann summers, wants a pole for xmas, and is oh so ok with him wanking to women getting raped. Goddess Almighty.
“Re separtism – we are all on the same journey, more or less, and some are further down the line than others. Some are still at the stage where there is a bit of “let’s just give one man one more chance” – that’s fine, we’ve all been there. Personally, I have had a lifetime of “giving chances” and have had enough – as Sparkle said if you have the “eyes that can see”, the problem is also getting far worse rather than better, it’s far far harder to trust a man now than even 5 years ago – you can SEE the deterioration in their attitude and you can SEE what they put into their heads – it’s all around.”
Again, I agree – for the most part. I simply don’t think this is ALL men. Being a radfem active on the internet means being constantly bombarded by examples of excremental male behavior. It is hard for me to keep in mind that while it could be any of them, it isn’t all of them. Just as I would not want to be assumed to be a shopaholic, lesbian in name only, pornstar wannabe airhead – men don’t want to assume to be abusive, women hating rapists. Safety first, of course – but I remain commited to doing unto others as I would have done to me (how very biblical for this hardcore atheist). Like I said, I have plenty of excellent men in my life – none of which exhibit the things we’re talking about here. I don’t deny that I may someday get to the same place – however, I’m simply not there yet. And honestly, hopefully never will. I do find myself increasingly in support of seperatism – however that is not seperating women and men. It is seperating women and men from a sick culture. Which I think is mentioned in the Pornsucksville post, isn’t it?
I have NEVER said “boys will be boys”, and have never tried to be any man’s stripper/pornstar. I went through my pro-porn phase too, but finally did have to admit that I’m not cool with it. Imo, erotica is one thing, porn is another. Porn is made for men. Did the whole treadmill hamster thing when in my earlier 20’s, but now couldn’t care less. Not a “bikini” girl by any stretch of the imagination – and no longer desire to be. I am what I am, take me as I am or don’t. Where does that put me on the timeline?
All that said and basically I am agreeing with you. It might be my age, it might be my optimism – but I simply don’t believe they are a lost cause. Some (most?) perhaps are – just like some (most?) women are. For my part, I am only interested in populating my world with people I can respect, and admire (Though admittedly, I am not sure I trust anyone at all outside my family) – the rest of the world can do as they will. The door is open – can’t force them to walk through it.
“What I’m saying is, separatism is not giving up – it means we’ve tried and tried and at some point, men have to meet us halfway and do some of the running, and that just ISN’T happening cuz you know what? They don’t really have to – that’s the sad fact about it – so until that happens, I (we) are outta here. It’s not as if we haven’t tried – we’re just tired of it and our energy can be put to better use moving onwards and upwards, rather than just treading water which is getting more and more turbulent by the day, getting nowhere, and only wearing ourselves out in the process. ”
This I agree with 100%. And perhaps, in turning our attention away from them and toward our own welfare – maybe that will get the point across. In this fight, imo, it is “with us or against us”. If they are unwilling to meet us halfway then they aren’t worth the time.
And I esp agree with the statement “they don’t have to”. That is the simple truth – this is a dude’s world, and they don’t have to care what happens to us. I think we need to redefine/relabel the words we use (i.e. proto-feminists in place of “fun” feminists). A MAN would not be violent (except in defense). A MAN does not rape, coerce and is not predatory. A MAN does not purchase, view or enjoy violent, abusive, racist and misogynistic porn. Etc etc etc. See what I’m getting at. I think we need to (if it has not already been done – and if it has, let me know where I could see it) separate the men from the dudes. And not dismiss them all. This is not to suggest that it falls on women to “fix” men. But there seems to be a lot of confusion as to what feminists believe. I’m all for making it more clear.
“But Prof Fifi is not a man-hater – oh no – god forbid that someone says she hates a man – she’s just sick of their lies and deceit, and their arrogant expectation that she will automatically be addicted to shopping at ann summers, wants a pole for xmas, and is oh so ok with him wanking to women getting raped. Goddess Almighty. ”
I have no problem calling myself a hater. I am not a man-hater. I am a dude-hater. “Dude” as defined by my favorite spinster aunt. The JoeFrancis-TedNugent-WWE-Maxim-Beercommerical-pornconsumer-predatory dudes – can’t stand a one of them.
re the fun feminists – wearing mini-skirts, mascara, being involved in porn/modelling etc: The danger is, that all of those things are being actively promoted now as feminism, and many women are embracing it as such, and any other definition of what true feminism is about seems to be exclued – the only definition that is allowed is the one that men have made up – no other definition is ever given a mainstream platform, which uhhhh correct me if I’m wrong, is kind of defeating the whole meaning of feminism. Men defining it to their terms? and then only allowing the women a voice who accept this definition? What the f**k?
Lya said
“I don’t deny that I may someday get to the same place – however, I’m simply not there yet.”
“It is hard for me to keep in mind that while it could be any of them, it isn’t all of them.”
Yep you are on the same journey, just a bit behind in the “being-fucked-off-no-patience-left” stage.
“Imo, erotica is one thing, porn is another.”
As for porn and erotica, until all vast percentage of porn is out of the sphere, I don’t even feel safe with “erotica” whatever the difference is. That’s a very gray area and there would be many arguments about how this is defined so until the porn’s gone, then in that context, perhaps some”erotica” – but I feel the whole porn industry is based on erotica anyway, and if suddenly , all porn disappeared, it would soon be back under the new improved label of “erotica”. Erotica has been abused, and if the porn clock was wound back to zero (chance would be a fine thing), it would soon be back as bad as ever.
“I think we need to redefine/relabel the words we use”
re – redefining the definition of men or dudes – we shouldn’t have to redefine anything – they should. We are fighting tooth and nail to not be portrayed as pieces of meat for easy fast-food consumption, let them do a bit of work.
Sorry for taking this out of context but there’s only so much you can copy and paste!
And no, I’m not having a go at you – I think we agree – it’s just that I think you agreed with my statement about being on a journey and being further along the line. Your statements(as quoted) reminded me of when I was younger, less pissed off, less experienced, less cynical and more amenable to giving someone a (awww just one more – there’s got to be a good one in the world) chance, but then, that’s one of the advantages of getting older – you learn from lots and lots and lots of mistakes!
Lya, it probably is your age (Stormy awaits your arrival at “the place”, it won’t be long!)
I am an optimist, I always try to see the good in people, and I am frequently disappointed. As I look around MANkind (the penis-wearing half) I just shake my head. I wonder if they can ever come back from misogynyville and become fully human.
Even the pro-feminist men have to be taken at arm’s length – as recent events (and past ones also) have shown. This is very sad, I want to trust them, I really do.
But it is time to get real. Face the reality. It’s as if the world outside my door is run by horny teenage boys – the ‘grown up’ boys don’t seem any different.
Like Sparkle, I have given them chance after chance after chance. In the end one just realises that the vast majority are tarred with the one brush. And it is getting worse by the minute out there.
I wonder if, in a few years, it will even be safe for women to venture out their doors to go to work, or go about their daily duties. Because if it keeps heading (esp at this pace), the way it’s going, it will not be safe for women at all.
The majority of men wank to porn. You may not be aware of it, because they hide it, and they lie about it. Remember too, that men don’t wank to things that turn them off, only to what turns them on. In looking at what they look at (to wank to) brings the horrible realisation of what the majority of men think about women.
I too, have observed porn over the last 20 years get more and more violent towards women, more degrading. This type of porn is now ’standard fare’ (previously it was marginalised).
Separatism is probably the only logical, safe, sane choice. Pornsucksville looks better by the minute. My bags are packed in anticipation of the big lotto win.
Professor Fifi said:
“fun feminists – wearing mini-skirts, mascara,[...] being actively promoted now as feminism, [...] the only definition that is allowed is the one that men have made up – no other definition is ever given a mainstream platform”
Agreed. The term, label, agenda, of ‘feminism’ has been co-opted and redefined – by patriarchy. The fun feminists that go along with it, are tools and mouthpieces of the patriarchy.
“I don’t even feel safe with “erotica” whatever the difference is. That’s a very gray area and there would be many arguments about how this is defined so until the porn’s gone”
Agree, sadly it is the baby out with the bathwater on this one. Any ‘loophole’ with erotica will be quickly and readily exploited by porn. In five minutes, it will look like the same environment as it is now.
“let them do a bit of work.”
Damn tootin’. Why the hell is it just up to women/feminists to sort out all this shit? They have run a damn sight further than halfway.
“being on a journey and being further along the line”
Couldn’t agree more. It seems the logical choice if one seriously looks at all the issues and forces at work. Sick of hitting my head against the brickwall.
Yep stormcloud – you know, I was going to include that very expression in my last post – the head/brickwall one- but in my usual impatience to slam something out on the keyboard, it slipped my mind – honest! But the expression is very apt.
Radical feminism is the only sort of feminism (in my eyes) that has not been devised and dictated to by men.
And one other thing I forgot to say – when I was younger and less experienced, less cynical etc, there was a lot less porn around, it was far less extreme, and so what must it be like now?
Men now expect porn on tap, and they expect women to be just the same, going along with it and being just like the pornstars/”glamour” models, at their beck and call. It doesn’t even seem to be an option to be “unsexy” any longer for a woman – why?
Men who in the past would not even get a second glance from a woman, a loser who would be afraid to approach a woman, now can just about get sex anytime he wants. Sometimes he’ll have to pay for it and these days, there are enough women providing this. Porn has orchestrated this whole scenario to give them what they want, when they want it, and to say as a female, that this is liberation is buying into the biggest con the world has ever known.
I’m tired now – please tell me to shut up.
I’m tired now – please tell me to shut up.
No way
You let it all out!
“Porn has orchestrated this whole scenario to give them what they want, when they want it, and to say as a female, that this is liberation is buying into the biggest con the world has ever known.”
YEP!
“I’m tired now – please tell me to shut up.”
Nope – no way!
But it is ok to take time out for some serious depression about the whole situation for women.
Let me start off by saying that I am relatively new to Feminism. That is to say, I’ve always been for women’s rights, but never really committed myself to helping out (as much as its worth) until a few years ago. I have volunteered in women’s shelters for nearly a decade, and in a planned parenthood clinic until the death threats started to hit to close to home. I do not state this to impress but rather to attempt to explain that while Feminism is new(ish) to me, seeing suffering, degradation and abuse is not. Neither is my own heart free from scars. I am new to the theories and flavors or feminism and am still trying to find my perfect fit.
“the danger is, that all of those things are being actively promoted now as feminism, and many women are embracing it as such, and any other definition of what true feminism is about seems to be exclued – the only definition that is allowed is the one that men have made up – no other definition is ever given a mainstream platform, which uhhhh correct me if I’m wrong, is kind of defeating the whole meaning of feminism.”
Agreed. This is the general impression i get from “fun” blogs like femlisting.
“and more amenable to giving someone a (awww just one more – there’s got to be a good one in the world) chance, but then, that’s one of the advantages of getting older – you learn from lots and lots and lots of mistakes! ”
Let me try to get at my concerns with statements like these. How are things to change if we throw in the towel (as this is what this statement sounds like to me)? Human beings crave connections, affections etc. Is it wrong to want that? As I happen to be straight is it wrong to want that from men? Is it wrong to not believe that media reflects society, but rather distorts it? Is it wrong to believe in inante goodness? I realize that is is starting to sound a lot like “but feminism will make e unlovable!” though that is absolutely not something I agree with. Also, understand I’m not trying to put words in your mouth. It just really feels like I’m missing something; that I’m not understanding something and am trying to get a hold on it.
This is not to suggest that I or any other woman should sublimate their autonmy to have this need filled. And I don’t deny that I give all people – female or male – many chances and probably more than I should. However, I am still struggling with how to differentiate between what my heart and mind actually need with what has been forced into my head as what women need.
~~~~~
“Men now expect porn on tap, and they expect women to be just the same, going along with it and being just like the pornstars/”glamour” models, at their beck and call.”
I am a bit torn on this so I won’t even try to articulate the war of words being waged in my head. Of course there are plenty (too many) boys like this and I have known plenty personally. I’ve been in relationships where boys have requested remarkably gross and degrading sexual acts after viewing them in porn. It aggravates me to no end that these same boys don’t understand that degrading porn (I’ve never known anyone who’s admitted to liking violent porn) colors the way the view and treat women, irl. Or worse, don’t care because that would mean giving up their titliation from porn.
Perhaps my issue is that I don’t experience misogyny from those I am familiar with – only from strangers. Yes, I’ve had crap bfs before, even one that helped an ex gf steal my identity. But I have also had wonderful ones.
I’m rambling. Apologies – these thoughts have not yet crystalized in my head. There’s a lot of thoughts swimming around in there and I’m still trying to sort through them and make them pratically applicable to the real world. I’m am also a proto-feminist apparently.
Lya, I think you are (well) beyond proto-feminist.
You are well on your way, and I think that us ‘oldies’ just see your inevitable path.
We understand where you are coming from, in your continued faith, but see it more as a matter of time before ‘bitterness’ sets in. Actually, we are not bitter. That’s what patriarchy tells everyone we are. We are extremely disappointed in the deteriorating behaviour of men, and perhaps wish it could be different, but realise that wishing just won’t cut it. I now choose to avoid men whenever and where ever possible.
Of the comments I have seen you leave around the place, have been thoughtful and insightful.
I probably wouldn’t have believed anyone 10 years ago if they’d said where I’d be now, perhaps I just had misplaced hope. I’m certainly not miserable about it, but very comfortable and content.
So Lya, don’t worry, the ‘bitterness’ will set in sooner or later!
Wow Lya you say you are new to feminism yet you have worked in women’s shelters for 10 years? I think your little inner voice is starting to be heard- it doesn’t sound like you are new at all to this!
“However, I am still struggling with how to differentiate between what my heart and mind actually need with what has been forced into my head as what women need.”
Lya I know what my heart and mind need, and believe me, it will not be provided by a man, especially one whose been warped by porn – and we have to face the fact, that as porn is so prevalant and visible these days, most men have been affected. I know the difference between heart and mind, and what is pushed at women via porn – Porn is “anti-heart, anti-love” and it poisons the mind – mens’ minds and many womens – I want to keep my heart and mind free from porn, and it’s men who need to do the differentiating now between their hearts and minds and what porn has done to women, not women. This is what men expect and what porn perpetuates – they think t’s women who have the problem if they object to porn, and they (women) have to look to themselves to solve the problem – it’s not our problem, it’s theirs and we have a right to be angry – the only problem women have is how to live our lives away from men and a whole culture that has been poisoned by porn.
It’s up to them now. As your feminism glasses become clearer, you will see it.
“Wow Lya you say you are new to feminism yet you have worked in women’s shelters for 10 years? I think your little inner voice is starting to be heard- it doesn’t sound like you are new at all to this!”
I was trying to say that I’m new to internet discussions of feminism and feminist theory. I haven’t read any books on the subject (except Feminine Mystique in college), I’m still learning the majors players and major schools of thought in connection. But I have dealt with the realities of life as a female in the US since I was 18 (I’m 28 now). I believe it was my extensive study of atheism (and theology) that led me here. Though I an reluctant to draw comparisions, being an out atheist brings with it all kinds of trouble from people who claim to be pious, loving kind and moral – and it is not too dissimilar from the trouble being a woman brings in from men who claim to be loving, kind, moral etc.
“I think you are (well) beyond proto-feminist.”
Thank you for saying so. At this moment, I don’t feel like I am any different. I don’t know where I stand yet. But this is what I do know – I never felt more free than when I stopped spending lots of money on make-up, overpriced clothes and painful shoes. Or when I stopped looking at my body in the mirror just to criticism and browbeat myself for the flaws someone else told me I should see. Or when I stopped doing all the chores gfs take on for their bfs (i.e. doing his laundry, cleaning his house, etc) as if it is any insurance he won’t stray and won’t leave. Or when I finally started to speak up when people around me do and say bigoted things.
I also would not be inclined to think any feminist is “just bitter”. That sounds like a rather lazy and intellectually dishonest insult.
Wait for it . . . .
BUT – Something has just occured to me. I have to credit my sense of justice and fairness, (which ultimately led me to feminism) to my father. It was he who raised me to not back down, to not allow someone to walk all over me, to never put up with disrespect or betrayal. My mother is much more “traditional”. It’s her who asks me why I don’t want to get married, why I’m not all that interested in breeding, why I don’t find a nice rich man to take care of me. My father taught me self-reliance, and self-respect. (They just celebrated their 30th wedding anniversary and I still marval at how to opposites attrached and remained so sturdy.)
He’s the reason I’m not ready (at least not now) to give up on men entirely. He’s a dependable, absurdly honest, loyal man, husband, father and friend. He’s from the Baby Boomer generation (was too young to be a hippy though), which could account for the differences between him and the boys of my own generation – then again, perhaps not. But my parents raised two sons who are the same. That gives me hope that all is not lost.
Perhaps it is lost for my own generation. But then that’s just more reason to try and make the next one come up right.
Anon seeing that you couldn’t even give yourself a name I will not publish your comment, not forgetting that even if you did give anon a name it is still under my discretion what gets posted on here.
Your argument is the oldest in the book and frankly boring. As for women ‘getting their bodies out’ what the fuck do you think we are? A packet of cigarettes. Next look up the words forced, coerced, dysfunctional, emotionally damaged and low self esteem then do some research on the sex industry that doesn’t live in your pants. As for ‘thinking out side of the box’ this IS what feminists do. Even though I hate such lame buzz words/phrases that mean fuck all. Anon broaden your horizons outside of the Daily sport, you never know you might find a real woman with feelings , emotions and an intact brain at the end of the rainbow.
Sorry your search for ‘up skirt’ brought you here.
Pitiful and pathetic arguements these cretins keep re-cycling. They really are deluded enough to believe in their own male superiority.
yes they are deluded